Thunder King Rai-Oh Ruling

Card Name: Thunder King Rai-Oh

Attribute: Light

Level: **** (4)

Card Type: Thunder/Effect - Continuous/Quick (Trigger-Like)

Attack: 1900  Defense: 800

Condition: None

Card Effect Cost(s): (Effect 2) Send itself to the Graveyard

Does This Effect Target: No

Text: Neither player can add cards from their Deck to their hand except by drawing them. During either player's turn, when your opponent would Special Summon a monster: You can send this face-up card to the Graveyard; negate the Special Summon and destroy it.

Ruling

*Thunder King Rai-Oh can only negate Special Summons that do not start a chain (i.e. Inherent Summons; ex. Cyber Dragon). Cards and effects that start a chain such as Monster Reborn and Dark Simorgh cannot be negated by the effect of Thunder King Rai-Oh.

Link to Inherent and Effect Special Summons: http://yugioh-universe.findforum.net/t272-inherent-summon-vs-effect-summon

*A Semi-Nomi monster negated and destroyed by Thunder King Rai-Oh cannot be special summoned from the grave by a card effect.

Link to Nomi and Semi-Nomi: http://yugioh-universe.findforum.net/t5-nomi-vs-semi-nomi

"Card Effect Cost(s): (Effect 2) Tribute itself to the Graveyard"

Thunder King doesn't tribute itself, it just sends itself.

"Thunder King Rai-Oh can only negate inherit special summons(ex. Cyber Dragon) not effects that special summon(ex Monster Reborn)."

Special Summons that happen off the chain can still be the result of an effect that allows that Special Summon to take place (Grapha, Unknown Synchron, Goka, etc.). If Grapha's effects are negated in the Graveyard by something like Terrorking Archfiend, it won't be able to Special Summon itself by bouncing a Dark World monster. To avoid confusion, you can use "off-chain" and "on-chain" as terms to describe what's going on with those Special Summon procedures. Although these are also unofficial, they do a better job of conveying what's going on with this interaction than "inherent" or "effects that Special Summon".

"Quick (Trigger-Like)"

A Trigger-Like Effect and a Quick Effect are two entirely different things. Trigger-Like Effects are effects of Spell Cards that work similarly to Trigger Effects (Wind-Up Factory, Black Whirlwind, etc.); also, they are Spell Speed 1. Quick Effects do not meet these specifications.

They say Grapha has no SS eff its condition to summon.

BlackLeg-Sanji wrote:They say Grapha has no SS eff its condition to summon.

Then "they" aren't entirely accurate. Grapha's Special Summon procedure doesn't start a chain, but it is still initiated by an effect. If this wasn't true, Dark Ruler Ha Des wouldn't be able to prevent Grapha's Special Summon after Ha Des destroyed Grapha by battle. For a similar example that actually references such a Special Summon being an effect, refer to Unknown Synchron's text. Also, the OCG has a ruling (not yet disputed in the TCG) that says that Special Summoning Goka, the Pyre of Malice through its procedure will trigger Vampire Grace (which triggers when a Zombie-Type monster is Special Summoned by an effect).The summon procedure doesn't have to start a chain in order to be the result of an effect. This is why I made the distinction between Thunder King negating summons that happen without using the chain, as opposed to summons that are the result of an effect that uses the chain.

Idk its pretty sure you can Summon Grapha even tho when SIM, Soul Drain is on field

His summoning part of the effect isn't considered to be activated - Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror
His summoning part of the effect doesn't start a chain - Soul Drain

BlackLeg-Sanji wrote:Idk its pretty sure you can Summon Grapha even tho when SIM, Soul Drain is on field

This is correct, because the procedure used to summon Grapha doesn't start a chain, and both SIM and Soul Drain care about effects that start chains. But it is still an off-chain effect that allows Grapha to initiate its summon procedure.

Yeah, sometimes explanations sound better in my head than on paper. But thanks for pointing out the mistake so I can reiterate it.

My apologies for using a phrase like "Quick-Trigger", I use that because i try to associate how there are two different kinds of activation timings in Quick Effects like, Stardust Dragon can only chain to an effect that destroys a card(s), as Wind-Up Rabbit can activate/chain its effect to anything so long as it is face-up, there are no cards that prevent its effect to resolve, and it isn't the Damage Step; but if you find it a major issue/concern, I'll rewrite it to the appropriate term.

On that note, I thought it was tribute, somewhere i remember it was tribute at one point, perhaps its just me speed reading again, sorry ^^"